Category: the Rant Board
Several people on here have asked me why I'm so antidigital, so I figured I'd write this little explanation. Digital is fine for certain things, like computers. , which use binary code, regardless of their media formats. And I think we could all agree that despite it's down sides, the internet is a truly wonderful invention. I could also understand the need and the advantages of digital products in the medical and film industries and in science. I also love the idea of the credit and id cards that use finger prints to match the identity of the user. There are also several assistive technologies that have made life easier for all of us. But some things have gotten absolutely ridiculous. There's no need to digitalise stoves, microwaves, washers, driers, cars, clocks, radios/walkmans (not mp3 players as they're different), televisions and mobile phones (though now it's a requirement), regular telephones, answering machines, regular vacuum cleaners (not like the Rumba) etc. For me, if someone with automotive knowledge buys a car and can't fix it on his/her own it's a piece of junk. Today, Joanie had to get a new key for her car and the whole thing had to go in to be programmed. So something that should've taken a few minuts took well over an hour. That's ridiculous! Mom's stoves, washer and deep frier are all digital and use flat touch screens. What's the point of all that? My stove, toaster oven, microwave and electric fry pan all use dials and they work just as well and cost alot less. What is it with people today that they throw away perfectly good technology whenever something newer and supposedly better comes along? My blender is at least 30-years-old and in mint condition. It has many functions so it's not like it only mixes or crushes stuff. Mom got a new one and wanted to throw mine out. Why? There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's just old. In contrast, when you buy something new today, in most cases, it stops working after a few years at best or it's so brittle that one drop on the ground will crack or ruin it. Nothing is made to last. Digitalization has also made people lazy. No one knows how to remember phone numbers, look in a dictionary, calculate simple math problems, spell etc. because they all use machines to do it. Granted, some of these things, like talking dictionaries, are a huge help to those of us who can't read print, and I'm guilty of alot of the above things, with the exception of remembering phone numbers. But it's honestly scarey to me what my generation is becoming. We rely so much on machinery that we can't think for ourselves. But this is off the topic. I've always been into analogue stuff, ever since I was a child, so I suppose part of it is habbit and comfort with me. But alot of this new tech is inaccessible, where previously, I could use it just fine. Why should I buy something mainstream if I can't use all of it's features, if I have to totally go out of my way to modify it or to remember how to use it? Seems silly to me. So I stick with what works and with what makes me happy.
by that logic, we could say, why do we need to modernize anything? Why don't we go back to living in caves and chipping tools from stone? It worked for us before, and there was nothing wrong with it, once we got fire, we were ok, what did we need to make bows and arrows, and then guns for, they did the same things after all, it just made us lazy. With guns, we didn't need to chase our food, so we got lazy. We have houses now, and our immune systems can't take all the diseases we've been exposed to.
Same exact argument you just made against digital, and there is a reason for digital things, its called accuracy. A digital clock is a lot more accurate than an anlogue clock. I don't think there is such thing as a digital blender however. digital stoves, microwaves, washers and driers, are all more accurate than the analogue counterparts. its most noticeable in thermometers. Try using a mercury thermometer to measure something that has to be exact, and then try a digital thermometer, you'll se what I mean.
Like I said, for sciences and things that have to be dead-on accurate, it makes sense. But for the average user, what does it matter if a clock is a few seconds off or if a thermometer is one or two degrees off. Murcury is dangerous, so I can certainly understand not using it. People have been using analogue stoves for decades and never had problems, at least, not once the technology was perfected enough that you didn't need to light the thing with a match. A meal cooked on an an analogue stove is no worse than one on a digital one. And how on Earth can a digital washer truly be better? Does it talk to the clothing and ask it if it's clean or if it needs more detergent? lol Seriously though, improving on something, or discarding it cause it's so bad that it's pointless to improve on it, is one thing. Changing something because it's dangerous is another and makes sense. But why reinvent the wheel? As for the blender, I wouldn't be surprised if there was one with digital controls on it. My point there was about old tech working versus shiny new toys that do the same thing and just make you spend more for something that you already have.
Tiffanitsa:
I'm not attempting to change your mind here, but Here is my response:
People are "getting lazier:"
People today work more hours, do more things, remember more information than they ever used to. It is only efficiency to not remember what you could otherwise look up. In fact, Einstein is quoted as saying something !the effect that it is foolish to remember what you could otherwise look up. Your complaints about people doing nothing because of "machinery" were made in the 1950s upon the invention ofthe transistor.
Products are made, perhaps, more cheaply now than some were before, but they are also cheaper. Per capita, that blender was probably more expensive thirty years ago than a blender in today's dollars costs. That is true of furniture and even food.
As to the car situation, understandably frustrating, but the problem there is the technology in use, or a lack ofa network. It's hard !say if they had to burn a new Eprom, or Prom or what the situation wasea and why over a key change. That just sounds like a potential flaw in design, not a result of all digital technology.
As technology evolves, people don't do less, they just do differently. When I was a boy, in the 1970s, my parents would have us all go out with them on Saturday while they shopped around for something. But at least we ct use supermarkets.
When my parents were kids, they didn't have those, so they probably had to do even more. Whin my daughter was a little girl, because ofthe Internet, we could easily look things up online first -- even before Google -- and then go to one or two places, then to the park.
Never did we j stop, since the work had been "done by machine."
I've read your posts over the past few months, and I get the feeling that you have a general mistrust of science, as though science and technology were "doing things to you." Simply put, science answers questions about the natural world, and technology provides new ways and means. It's not a movement, it's not a takeover, and it's as old as the human mind.
Think ofthe paeleolithic toolmakers, the first farmers, the first civilizations, etc. What archaeologists typically find is that the first experiments are generally fraught with problems.
They've found early farming sites with stunted and malnourished animal bones, people that had sustained significant injuries, and other catastrophic events.
Development appears to follow the pattern you can see on the Monopoly board, if you've seen one. On each side ofthe board as you go clockwise the properties cost the same on a given side, to put hghses on. However, the latter set yield a higher return forthe invenstment than the former. So the side withthe light purple and orange monopolies on it costs some100 per house, but the orange (progressively the farthest, has a higher yield.
A bit ofa stretch, but you can see how this happens. In the early days ofthe railroad, trains caused forest fires, boilers exploded, people died. Yet, eventually, trains improved and now carry freight across continents.
I'm surprised to see someone at your age being a reactionary, as you basically haven't lived long enough to really say these things. I say this at 38 myf, and hardly think I could make such claims. Much of what people say about former times comes from nostalgia.
Just my thoughts
I don't distrust this kind of science but I do feel it's a technology take-over. They've taken over alot of things. Things that could've been improvements on previously existing technology were either never made or only made in limited quantities because someone with more money or a huge monopoly on a given market got most of the customers. Things have become faster and more visual. As much as I love things like having knowledge at my fingertips, I hate how people have to embellish and make everything so fancy and graphical that it boggles my mind. Windows itself is a big ugly stain of pointlessness. You can just as easily create an os with either a command line or even a clean and simple menu system which wouldn't bother me at all. But no, it turned into a giant mess of nonsense. Even phones aren't just phones today. They've gotta be cameras, mp3 players, web browsers, calendars, personal organizers, gps systems and who knows what else. Nothing is simple anymore, nothing is normal. gods forbid someone wait an extra minute or two. It's gotta be done right now this momement!
People can't control tech as easily as we used to, especially the blind. I'll take something simple, television. When I was little, we had tvs with numberpads and remote controls. So you could either get up and change the channel right on the tv or use the remote. Then, we got tvs that had remotes and no numbers on them, just channel up and channel down. So now, if I lost the remote or if the battery died, I was screwed. There was no way for me to tell what channel the tv was on sometimes, so finding the right one was a chore. There were several channels but I could easily learn them and pick and choose what I wanted if I had the remote. Then, Joanie bought a Tivo. This machine was great for her. It allowed her to watch a film while recording, skip commercials, check what was on and record things, sometimes programmed months in advance, without her even being there. But for me, it was useless, because it didn't talk, just like her dvd player. That, and now I had to use more than one control. But I still had my usual tv and vcr so I was happy and ignored it. then, we switched to digital and got a converter box. Now we had tons and tons of channels that I couldn't remember (and the ones I did know changed) and guides and menus that I couldn't read. The reporters even started flashing potentially life-saving information, like tornado warnings etc, on the screens instead of saying it. So if I didn't check the weather that day, I could theoretically go out and die because I was unaware of what was going on. And of course, I couldn't use my usual remote but had to switch to one with a thousand needless buttons and functions on it. and let's add insult to injury by including a Spanish translate button. So I pretty much stopped watching tv and became a youtube watcher.
So it's not that I hate tech. I hate foolishness, inaccessibility and unnecessary complexity.
I somewhat agree with mobile phones, sometimes, but I storngly disagree on your Windows position. You ahve spent infinitely more time trying to figure out how to configure an obscure version of Dos, and the improvements you suggest with that dos, in fact, are very basic user interface which, guess what, Windows has had for years. It is actually very user friendly and gets most tasks done faster than a beloved command line program, some things it doesn't but those are few and far between.
Command line is unintuitive and only goodif you have the intelligence and patience to learn it. Windows and Apple's GUI brought computers to millions of people, it'snot so much that those did more than the command line based systems that had been around for decades, but it made them simpler and more intuitive and so the PC revolution took off.
To take an example of Windows vs Dos. I have an email from somone, I remember it was sent to me about 3 to 5 week ago and first name was John. I push start menu, e for email, go to view, arrange by, and from by pressing alt-f v and f, then type john and all messages from someone named john are in a list box arranged by time, so I can easily find it. Tell me how this is easier on a dos based email program.
Same with basic office and Word processing,menus are the same, you know where to look for saving options,open, close window, spell checker etc, the menu structure is similar enough. You don't have to dig up a manual full of text commands but you openthe app and do your thing. Many things have turn a bit too gui to please the user, but that isnot necessarily Windows fault, it is only a platform and the programmers of new applications want to make them "fancy", which does not necessarily improve them.
And You can't find any drivers for any of the dos apps you are trying to dig up. Part of why Windows is so bulky is because things will, for themost part, work plug and play because those drivers all come bundled in. I think linux distros have the right idea to be able toidenty your product and automatically download the appropriate drivers off the net rather than store them on a hard drive, but Dos does not appear to do any of these things.
So your constant arguments for Windows being unstable and difficult make no sense, because had you spent a tenth of the time you do learning commands, editing files and finding old pieces of software, you'd be up and running with all of those things.
Noting's perfect, Windows has its fault, and it's fine to have a hobby like re establishing an old O.S. but claiming you are doing it because a perfectly accessible new O.S. sucks, without being able to really pressent any arguments, is a bit silly.
My problem with a lot of blind people is that they want exceptions and stick to old technologies rather than fight for making new technologies accessible, to stick with the analog tv rather than make the new tv with menus and on demand movies accessible. It is possible, but we have to get together to fight for it.
Technology moves fast, some things are a fad and then turnout not to work, but if we always sit back and stick to our old ways we'll fall behind and not be able to adapt and enjoy the advantages that come our way, we'll lose the advantages wehad as technology moves to the next phase and we don't, and I, for one, don't want to do it.
I agree with the general argument, often digital is not better initially, but washers, dryers and stoves now have the potential to become a lot more than they were, identifying cloting, even food, but we'renot there yet, may be we'll never get there as most people won't find those things useful, but I predict that we will, so I'd rather be in on it and make sure we get to enjoy the deveoopments along with everyone else.
So, you have a lot of points and I sometimes share your frustrationg with new things, I really do, but I can't agree with many ofyour decissions andmostly the bashing of "new things" or "Windows" that is completely without merit, as someone who works with blind people who scream and shout about lack of accessibility and badly designed page, until they find out they turned off the table navigation in their assistive software, I prefer a quiet, thought out and factual criticism.
Cheers and good luck with living life your way, it is not for me, but I am not one to tell you it is wrong, because for you it isn't, if I can help with things I will post advice, whether I agree with the aproach or not, because that's what we got to do, to stick together and let each other live as close to the life they want as possible.
Who are "they?" And in your former days, there have always been people who wanted to, as you say, "live the way they want"was in this instance meaning without technology. There are still people who wish they didn't have to have a phone number, a social security number, all sorts of things. And "simpler" is perhaps an opinion. Many people now use -puters who never used DOS. For many, a -mand-line operating system is as inaccessible as a pure picture is to you. And Union Pacific got a letter, still in a museum, claiming that trains were unnatural because they went at a breakneck speed of 15 miles per hour. Pseudoscience was alive and well then, as it is now. People claimed, contrary to the existing knowledge, that the human body would fall apart at such speeds. If you don't want digital technology, don't use it, but don't be too surprised when you find yourself on the outside of things. Humanity has this propensity to continue moving forward. I could be having, and indeed have had, this same conversation with my mother. I have always found it far more advantageous to be a part of the solution.
Hugs to you wildebrew. I've truly developed a high respect for you, precisely because of the way you voice your opinions without being discriminating and because you help me whenever you can. I'm seriously considering your e-mail question now and it's driving me bonkers, since I've never used Pine, Net Tamer etc. I suppose you could use GMail or another web service and then use it's find/sort feature. I haven't used an e-mail client of any kind in several years now that I use webmail. Some drivers can be found and some can't. Others simply use a generic driver. I admit to my own laziness here. I should really go on the DOS boards and ask users about these things, since they're general questions and not accessibility ones. You hit the nail on the head by saying that command lines take intelligence and patience. And isn't that what we want to instill in our young? By that logic, a system like DOS promotes curiosity and learning, good memory and problem solving skills. It actually gives you the tools that things like algebra and other advanced maths are supposed to give. Personally, the latter never gave me anything but a headache because it's so abstract. But remembering commands that corelate to things could translate to learning cause and effect in the real world. You did make a good point about standardisation in some programs though. I'm now going through a crisis, having to choose between buying Wordperfect 5.1, which I know how to use, or downloading the free MS Word 5.5 and learning a whole new set of commands/menus. But that could've easily been fixed by programmers. As you said, it's not the fault of the os. *smile* Certainly, MS-DOS didn't download off the net but I'm not sure if this is the same for modern versions and newer programs. I'll let you know when I try them. I stick to what works and avoid life's headaches. There are enough people who use the new tech so that some, maybe most, of it will eventually become accessible. If I truly love something though, I'll learn it. Take netbooks. They're modern but fantastic cause they're so small. Granted, they strip away all of the amazing periferals that I love so much but when I've gotta carry around a machine, I'd much rather have something that's light weight and that measures 7 inches as opposed to a 13 inch one that weighs several lbs. I also adore my Zenstone. Even though this particular one holds only 2 gb of songs and the battery life isn't as long as on my walkman, it's certainly smaller and more light weight and yes, very simple to operate.
To robozork. Those people can easily look up the commands and use them without a problem if they truly wanted to. I, like all totally blind and severely visually-impaired people, can't work with graphics or inaccessible things without a screenreader, and sometimes, even that can't help.
You can't work with a command-line without a screenreader either, if that is the case, for the simple reason that there's no direct output to speech synthesizers that's useful, oh yes you could mode the tty (screen) to the com port but you could never review anything and when in an editor as you moved the cursor you would never hear anything. Most of the world today who use computers never did in command-line days, because their purpose for using a computer exceeds computing: they want to research online, play games, shop, etc. and most of my family and friends would not be online at all if they had to spend a lot of time learning commands. If you play 3D audio games, or even use Klango, you get a bit of an idea how advantageous and nice a 3d visual world is for a sighted person. It's not so much the ability to see, it's visualization, e.g. relational association. Sort of the difference between knowing you want to pick or type 1, and knowing you want the one on the left that makes the leaf rustling sound. Klango, although itself not very good for average sighted users, is a good way to get somewhat of a feel for what it's like to be them and use a computer / GUI. It isn't lazy, just different. 3D audio games is another. Or think about the way you look at a web page: you think of what heading, or table cell you typically use to do or look at a certain thing. Is that not visual? And yet you picture it in your head. I don't think the following is all that picturable:
if errorlevel3 (
echo 'Filename must be selected'
goto end
)
However, a system error sound (and for those who can see it, the yellow exclamation point) for most cause a reflexive reaction there's something wrong, and the spawned dialog can guide the user to where and what they want. There's nothing 'sighted' about that. I've not seen a Braille note or a Braille Sense but I did see an Icon, and it had a very Symbian-like graphical interface. Probably not politically correct to say 'graphical' but okay : modern. Lists, drop-downs, buttons / selectors, and most important, pathways. More what we geek types refer to as object-oriented / event-driven. That's why your average people like it, not because they're lazy or it has pictures.
In fact, the pictures on certain known things change with an OS upgrade to the point it confuses a lot of people relying on the pictures, because those pictures were landmarks. I'll go even further and say a blind user who started on Windows XP or perhaps even 98, using JAWS or Window Eyes, would be as lost as any similar sighted user if they were presented with a command-line interface only.
You're right that it is perception, and if the command-line works for you by all means go for it; I would contend with others who have said you'd be much happier with Linux in the command shell only because the would be far richer. But it's because of factors other than your sight; if GUIs were inaccessible than the modern PAC Mate, or more to the point, the Icon and the Braille Sense who use the same concepts, would be inaccessible.experience
I went blind when I was two-months-old so don't have any memories of seeing. Since I'm a total, I can't rely on any type of vision, not even light or shaddows. I never thought of it the way you described. Certainly makes more sense now, at least for them. I guess it's like when you're teaching and have one student who learns by repetition, one by writing and another by sound or visual cues. Personally, I don't see why simple pulldown menus or hotkeys can't be used. It's a very nice alternative to the command line which isn't graphical. Think Wordperfect 5.1 style. When I view a webpage, I never use collumns, headings, tables or cells. I just use the links list or do a find to locate the text or link I'm seeking. To me, if I were to visualise it, I'd say it's like a paper with each link being a line under the previous one. As for error sounds etc, I certainly have no problem with them and, of course, they can be incorperated into the kind of interface I've described. I have a Braillenote (very early model) and a Braille Lite 2000. Despite many of the wonderful features of the Braille Note (from it's excellent voice to the four buttons that allow me to scroll quickly through text, to the internet browser and so on), there are times when I wish it had the simple interface of the Braille Lite, which, in certain instances, was faster. And now you've intrigued me with the talking synthesizer bit. Can you explain a little more what you meant? And that reminds me! I still have to get that E-SPeak synth and the Interface package. As for Linux, that's one time where I'll agree with you on the command line. I took a look at the Wikipedia entry and was totally confused. Some things made sense but coming at it as a DOS user, some completely threw me off? No drive letters, for example.
I was playing around on Youtube recently and found some old Apple ads. One of the big selling points of the Macintosh in the early 90's was that there was a GUI, so the average user didn't have to remember complex commands. There's actually an ad of a dad and his son trying to learn about dinosaurs on a DOS computer. And they just can't do it. In the end, the kid leaves, and when the dad asks where he's going, he says "To the neighbors' house. They have a Mac."
So, what does this have to do with anything? I sort of see your point about things becoming more complicated. But being a stick in the mud about them doesn't help. Companies will only make things accessible if we demonstrate that there's a need for those things to be accessible. For example, many companies make braille overlays for their appliances. (And yes, there are actually digital washing machines that determine how much detergent to use for a particular load.)
I'm sorry, but I just have to disagree with you here. You can't have your cke and eat it, too. There's nothing wrong with finding old technology interesting. But I just don't see the point of trying to use outdated stuff as your main way of getting things done, especially since things will grow less and less compatible over time.
Like I said, if it's not broken don't fix it. As for the cake, take half and leave half. That way you'll have eaten some and still have some leftover. lol I know, I'm so bad.
But like an above poster said, with that mentality, there'd be no internet, no telephone, no braille, Etc. Blind people would still be living in asylums, still only be allowed to work in sheltered workshops, Etc. Yes, I'm extending the comparison a bit, but the point is valid. I understand your frustration, I really do, but it's 2009, not 1969. Am I saying you (or anyone) has to run out and get the newest, latest and greatest toy? No, of course not. But I just think it's impractical to discount new technology because it's new, just as it's impractical to totally embrace new technology without a second thought.
It's not that it's new. It's that many times, it's got flaws that the old one doesn't have, and as I've said, many times, it's not accessible. When those flaws are worked out and when it is made accessible, I'll be more willing to try it. I can't say I'll love it, but by that point, it'll be easier to handle. Not all new, or even digital, technology is bad. Some is downright nice. Case in point, the Zenstone. There are many other mp3 players out there that can do alot more. Why did I choose mine? I chose it because it's got no screen and therefor has very simple and basic operation. It's easy to use, light weight and you can easily copy and paste your music into it without having to use software wich may or may not be accessible. It's also got buttons on it instead of a touch screen. Also, everyone is speaking in plurals here. So it's not that they can't make good tech today, it's just that many manufacturers choose not to.
It's important to remember that this wasn't a call to all blind people to not go digital. It was about me, one person, who chooses not to do so.
Well accessability does in some ways seem to be getting more difficult as the trend is toward appliances and things with flat pannels or touch-pads. Even if one does somehow manage to press the right "button" there is no confirmation of having done so other than a light which of course does not help those who are low or no vision. Also often times the touch pad flat "buttons" are too close together to adequately label them.
Also, I do think the more things are digital the more likelihood there is of something breaking. It's often too pricey to replace the digital "computer" parts of it so it's time to just buy a new one.
Also, there are a lot of people who do get rid of their old things though perfectly functional, just so that they can have the latest and greatest. Cell phones are a ridiculous example of this. The U.S. at least is a consumer society. We are constantly bombarded by media ads that tell everyone all day long how they need this that and the other in order to have a happy life.
And companies do make things more cheaply and with the intent for them not to last, because there is more money to be made from a product that many people by several times in a lifetime than a product that is only baught once.
Huge huge hugs. yes! At last, someone who agrees with me. Glad I'm not the only one out there who feels this way.
One thing people fail to take into account when complaining about the cheaply made electronics of today and nothing compares to how it wasin yesteryear is the fact that these devices, generally, cost a fraction of what they used to, and you can still, often, get same quality devices today for costcomparible with thatof 30 years ago, and these devices last longer.
You can get stereos and computer speakers today for down to $10, the cheapest stereo I remember in the early 90s when I shopped for my first one cost about $300.
It is evolution.
It's cheaper in the short term but not in the longrun. I have a blender/food processor that's well over 30-years-old. It has at least eight different functions on it and works perfectly. So why should I rush out and buy another and how many cheaply-made ones would I have to buy during the lifetime of this one machine which is still adequate for my needs? My microwave is newer, maybe seven-years-old. It's got a single dial on it. You simply set the minuts and walk away. It doesn't look at all like it's about to quit on me. So I see no need to throw it out to get a modern digital one with 100 buttons that I can't feel to do 100 things when all I wanted was to heat my tv dinner or my coffee. this is not evolution, it's devolution at the expense of quality and wallets.
I have a microwave with actual raise buttons and a dial. It is digital and I love it. My oven is digital but is labeled and it works fine. Just saying, I don't understand the issue.
for some of us, digital is a life saver. hearing aids for example. if i were to use analog ones will never work for me now, they just don't have the power to do it. also, what about the ITouch? with voiceover it's amazing and so easy to use once you oh my, learn how to use it. is that so bad?
Margorp, perhaps you, or I for that matter, don't understand the issue because we fail to understand the sense in nostalgia.
Wildebrew was right: in the "glory days" of yesteryear, fewer people could get access to the same appliances. It's made more cheaply now, and more people are getting access to it.
The original poster has not lived in a time when an electronic typewriter with a one-line memory / could erase was a lifesaver, when you used a slate and stylus to take decent notes, when you spent hours typing out papers, only to find your ribbon went dead after the first paragraph of the first page. Oh and add to this: you had to first Braille, then type, all your math so the teacher could see your work. That includes clicking the carriage up and back for superscripts and subscripts and the like. So much inefficiency, so much mechanization that resulted in so very little yield! Idealists may rave about a time such as that, but any practical mind would say that's so inefficient if it were a car, you'd be lucky to get five miles out of it.
Oh, and your blender? Most people at that time didn't have a blender, or had a very basic one. In the 1970s, the people with food processors, or even microwaves once those came out were few. So when most of us didn't have them, we rather considered ourselves part of the norm, not the few rich who did.
Digital has done for devices what refrigeration and preservation did for food:
You see people complain now about preservatives, because they can complain about it. In short, they have food, which is preserved and cooled, to complain about. They complain now about vaccinations, because they're not in danger of contracting polio - and aren't old enough to remember seeing people who had contracted it. My parents had friends who suffered the effects of it, and while I'm no medical expert, those friends of theirs didn't look to me like their polio was a walk in the park.
Easiest way to wax idealistic: possess all the luxuries of now, while giving a rather longing, hang-dog look into the past at what you think is back there. I think what you see is more an optical illusion.
As I've said in earlier posts, medical items are a whole different ball game. Of course, things like hearing aids should always be maximised, and so long as you can use them without a problem, I'd say go digital. I've also stated that I'm not against computers. While I don't like the propensity of people today to make flowery and unnecessary graphical programs, there's no doubt that computers have a definite place in the world and especially in the blind community. what I'm referring to here is everyday things that have gone stupidly digital and have gotten complicated for no reason, like stoves, microwaves, washers, driers, frying pans, phones, stereos, coffee makers, clocks (not counting talking ones) etc. All of these things work perfectly well without being computerised. And even when they are, there's no need for flat pannels and for a million settings that most people won't use. I like to buy something and be able to use it out of the box. I don't want to have to read a manual just to make my toast. I'd rather spend my money on something that'll last a decade or more instead of something that I'll have to by over and over again, especially when I was unsatisfied with it in the first place. Older products, or those that are actually well-made, can also handle accidents, such as spills and drops, without breaking or getting ruined. so it's not only older things that I like. if something new comes along and is simple and well-made, I have no problems in using and buying it. as a sidenote, I've got a manual typewriter from 1912 and an electric one that's made like a manual from the 70's. Both are in perfect working condition, though the inside keys on the first need to be lubricated. Of course, I wouldn't use either of them on a daily basis, since I can't see print, but that's what I mean about products lasting. I've also got computers from the 80's and early 90's that show no signs of quitting.
I suppose that for the most part I fall on the side of the technologically advanced in this argument though some of what Tif says does have some merit. I was reading an article by Bill Bryson recently on an unrelated topic but in it he mentions a new video recorder that his family had just purchased. Yes, this wasn't a recently penned article, but bare with me. One of the boasts of the manufacturer of this modern marvel was that it could record programs up to a year ahead. As he quite correctly pointed out, only somebody close to brain dead would actually waste time coming up with such an utterly useless feature. Think about it, at best you can generally find out what's going to be on TV just a few days to a month ahead of time. I, like he, can't think of a single example of when I'd actually want to set my video recorder recording a year ahead of a program. In fact I doubt you could even get scheduling that far ahead of time. Never the less, not only had somebody bothered to include this useless feature in the machine, but then went on to make it one of it's chief selling points.
So while generally I am all for the improvement of technology, some times I do agree that features are added to things really needlessly. I mean to say, it's one thing having to keep up with things because they are of genuine benefit to us as users of what ever bit of technology we happen to be using, but it's quite another to just keep adding in functions that no sane human being would ever wish to use and then forcing us to keep up as a result.
Dan.
Probably the year ahead bit was a side benifit of improved time / recording technology, i.e. the functionality which caused improvements somewhere else in the device also had the unintended consequence of allowing the device to record a year ahead.
Frequently happens in engineering of all types: Plastic was an accident, for one.
Generally it's the anti-science / anti-engineering or all round ignorant types who make fun of this sort of feature. Yet had the manufacturer not told users, or had they blocked that ability deliberately, these same types would rant on and on about how new devices block things.
And if you're intellectually honest when you complain about "needless" graphics, get rid of any nice audio that accompanies your computer use: Tha's the same graphical ambiance except for the blind ... it's just that you or I cannot use it / it doesn't have the same meaning for us. Just imagine the difference between when you hear something set down - you can hear where it was set down. However, if you could not hear where it landed, you just heard a unidimensional plop that would be just as frustrating as a non-graphic environment for a sighted person: Many people think it's their for looks, and it in fact is, however it's not just something they want. It's something they actually need, as the pictures, shapes, color contrasts, proportions and positions of everything serves a purpose.
Studies have shown that people are automatically drawn towards, and away from, various items on a web page or in a program, based on this. You would be far less inclined to criticize them for this if your audio output and your reader were combined in a sort of Klango-ish model to do something similar.
And as I said, the cost was much higher for these devices. What's more, with digital, the features you say now are undesirable, are transferred from device to device very quickly - the chips providing the capability. If these functions were missing, and you found out they were able to be implemented right there you would no doubt be ranting on about how new devices *could* have all these functions but are too lazy to put them in, or are terrible because they blocked that particular functionality the chip itself provides. Also digital devices do a better job of sensing how much power they need to consume, and in the case of our washer anyway, even how much water. Same chips.
Obviously being blind, I have a tough time with flat panels and no buttons, but I also realize we're about as endangered a group as the Galapagos turtle, only less trendy. Once accessibility isn't trendy anymore, or an anti-regulation group gets Section 508 overturned, Apple and similar will stop supporting accessibility for blind people because we're such a small population. Not knocking Apple, just being realistic. So, you take that further, G.E. and other products aren't being buttonless on purpose, it's just easier, and back in your "good old days" they would have easily done the same. Only then there was no trendiness or popularity about supposed accessibility.
I, for one, wouldn't complain if a needless feature was blocked or simply unavailable. I'd have a problem only if it was something truly beneficial or necessary. Even in audio, people have gotten crazy. They want all these fancy speakers, surround sound, ridiculously huge files because, for them, mp3s aren't good enough. Okay, if you're a dj or something, or if you just want to treat yourself once in awhile, I could understand it. But what's wrong with a normal set of speakers or headphones for daily use? why does it have to blast through the floor to be considerd good? As for Klango, while I enjoy it, I can, of course, use the computer in a standard environment without a problem. I don't really see the need for 3d there, so long as the screen is read properly to me. There's no doubt that computers are truly wonderful things. But I think it's precisely because of their aesthetic appeal, they've made prisoners of us as a society. That is, people would rather stay on the computer to talk, to shop, maybe even to read. And I'm talking about the sighted here who can just as easily drive and go out wherever whenever they want. But they stay shut up with their pcs. Look at children today. Do they have as much fun as they used to outside or do they sit in and play video games all day? And then the adults blame their weight on food. There needs to be a balance between simpllicity and complexity. Of course, there are older things that are not accessible, but, from what I've seen, this happens far less frequently than with the newer ones. Many times, they're also easier to adapt due to their being simpler. You could label most things on the dial, and when you chose not to label something, you wouldn't be missing out on alot.
Alright, you had to insult the audiophile there, did ya?
Answer me this. If it is feasible, why shouldn't someone do it if not for morality issues? In other words...If it's feasible for a man to spend $200 on a pair of headphones so his keen ears can pick everything up with reference class accuracy, should he do it? If it is feasible for a company to implement a feature on a washing machine, but would require it to go digital to work, should they do it? And answer that from a *sighted* person's perspective, because you know that's the core market.
Capitalism is utterly beautiful because it fosters growth and innovation where it wouldn't be otherwise. If we don't push the boundarys, then we dont' have innovation, the blind be damned. if it aint broke, don't fix it is an utterly flawed logic because when exactly is it considered broken? You could be doing something completely inefficiently, but think it's not broken because...hey, you get the job done, even if you can figure out a way to get said job done ten times quicker. Why increase computer power if all that did was create speed increases? At some point, you wouldn't notice a chip going faster because it would only become so fast that you would lose perception. That is why we build more functionality into apps, operating systems, etc, nastalgics be damned.
If someone wants to spend that kind of money on a pair of headphones, that is, of course, their right. The difference here is that if someone can't afford it or chooses to get a simpler pair, it's very easy. But with some things, the option to have a simpler version either isn't there or is quickly disappearing. Many sighted people, though not all, are extremely lazy. So whatever feature takes a nanosecond of waiting away from them they'll take. Many others are simply into having the latest in everything, machines that do things that their friends don't have or simply playing with the wierd features on a new gadget. But there are also other sighted people who'd prefer things that are functional and not over-the-top. some, of course, are elderly, and you'd expect that from them. But some are young and just like things that don't tie the brain in knots. So to answer from the sighted perspective would depend on which type of sighted person you asked. As for capitalism, I'm a socialist, so I can see both the good and the bad in it. While I agree that everything being the same and that stagnation isn't good, I also feel that capitalism forces needless seller and consumer wars to the point where, sometimes, extra features are created in a product just to outsell the competition rather than because they're actually needed. the flip side, of course, is that some good changes come about because of this too. I guess it's just a matter of being a savvy consumer. as for the chips, I'm currently using my IBM Thinkpad X32 with XP Pro, an Intell Pentium M running at 2ghz and 412mb of ram. The only change I will make here is to upgrade the ram to 2gb because 512 really makes the machine sluggish. Other than that, everything is fine. I see no neeed why, with the things I do, I should have to get a faster processsor. As you said, though you disagree, I wouldn't notice the difference.
I do agree, functionality wise, that some devices were much nicer when simple, microwve, for instance. But we cannot reverse trends or change the market.
That leaves us really with either digging up outdated technology to use as a group whilst the market moves forward, or go with the flow and ensure we continue to be included in it, partially by being consumers and partially by defending our legal rights and pressing companies like Microsoft or Apple through government.
If we get left in the past we may miss out on work and leisure opportunities everywhere, and it is a dangerous path to go down.
One has to give Apple props for how they've made the inaccessible touch screen interface intuitive and very cool tooperate by a blind user, definitely simpler than key presses or key combinations for many tasks (not all, buttons definitely have their advantages) but many. If we had all hung onto 10 years old technology instead of trying to go with the flow such a development may never have come about.
I hope near future technologies may focus a lot more on preserving energy and making devices smart (washers and dryers using RFID tags to determine color and wash appropriately, smart power grid where devices can be prevented for using excess energy, less energy comsumption in general, these types of things), but whatever comes our way we must embrace it rather than step away from it.
Of course this does not hold for each individual, and I am not saying we should always rush out and by the latest and greatest, but we can't get left behind as a consumer group, we do have some powers and we need to use them wisely.
As for audio, there is a huge, huge difference between mp3s and higher quality music if you have high quality speakers, and being immersed in the sound of high quality music in a great speaker system is amazing. Sure, may be $2000 amplifier and speakers sounds expensive, but at that price level you are making a 10 to 20 year investment, assuming it is 20 years and 2000 dollars, it is $100 a year or $8.5 a month, is that really so much, a couple of cups of coffee or choosing organic eggs over the store brand would do the same, and if that is important for one's lifestyle, that is fine too, of course.
Touch screens can all go away and die, as far as I'm concerned. Seriously, why does everyone want something just because it has a touch screen? Because it's easier to store? Okay, but like Tiffanitsa said in her original post, these things never last as long as the non-digital stuff. There are definitely advantages to digital. I kind of like the fact that I don't have to bring a tape recorder with me everywhere I go, clean the heads once every two weeks, and hope it doesn't eat the tape while I'm listening, and of course, we live in a world where computers have become almost a necessity, but who likes to sit down after buying a phone, for example, and trying to read through and make sense of a two-hundred page instruction booklet? Certainly not me.
post 28: Seller/consumer wars. They're utterly beautiful, because they force innovation. It only makes our situation better because while you might think something's useless, someone else will find it useful. Innovation is greater than stagnation, and stimulates our economy. Yes, some devices may have been nicer *for us* back in the day, but that should never mean that we should take a leap back ten years.
Post 30: Way to show your closed-mindedness. Pick up an iPhone or iPod touch and run your fingers across that touch screen with voice over on it. Then tell me that touch screens should just die. Mentality like that pisses me off. Take your head out of the sand and keep up.
way to go OceanDream! Just because everyone else likes it doesn't mean we have to jump on the band waggon. We're certainly not the only people who don't like touch screens and small phones with buttons that you can hardly feel. I've personally touched and used an IPhone and don't think I could ever really like it. Yes, it's usable, and if it were the only thing on the planet, I'd choose it. But, thankfully, it's not. There will always be people who like simple stuff and those who like to get extravagant. I have no problem with the latter so long as the regular stuff is still made for the rest of us. Tapes can be tricky, but if you've got a high quality recorder and good tapes, they can last for decades. You just need to treat them with care.
to post 28: "many sighted people are lazy", i would say, some blind people are lazy to learning new technology, new stuff too. because they use to the old way of doing that, and dislike the change.
to post 31: "touch screen go and die" guess what, touch screen wont die as easy as what you thought. maybe me and you die before touch screen die. it is not the question of assessability, its the question of either one willing to give it a go, and make it to be assessable or not. when you simply dont have the choice, you either live with it, or tkae your own sweet time living with old techonology.
i'm living with a group of sighted people, and in my house 80% of the electrical products are either touch screen or digitise, from TV to cook top, to washing machine, to dish washer and other things. as the only blind person in the house, i must addmit i need time to use to it, but ones i use to it, there's no different or whats ever, dealing with the touch screen stuff. it is the attitude of people, who dont want to change, and the atitude, is the one, who kill most people
well, lets see here. touch screens must die? hmmm. My ITouch is lightning quick to use, my touch pro 2 cell phone is amazing, but i forgot both have touch screens. i guess they can't be made. I can do things with my touch devices a lot faster than with say my old phone which had not touch technology at all. Also, with speakers, you say simple cheap stuff is disappearing? do a search on amazon for headphones, speakers that kind of thing and you'll find ones that are cheap that are acutally simple ang good quality. my new speakers were 20 bucks, and guess what. they're amazing for their price range. why is that? Digital sound handling, my advanced soundcard that kind of thing.
You have to consider that technology is really helping some of us by making things simpler, if you will actually learn something instead of complaining ithas a manual.
For me, it's not so much touch screens that bother me, as long as they can somehow be made accessible. But it's these multi-purpose phones and even IPods that piss me off. Since when does a phone need to have 30 games on it, an mp3 player, a web browser, etc. When did a phone stop being a phone and turn into a lazy man's paradise? If I want all that stuff, I'll buy a laptop, especially if half of the stuff isn't going to be accessible anyway. It's also true about this stuff being more breakable, my sister has gone through about 6 cell phones in the past year and a half. I've only had 2 in that time. Why? Because the phones I have are simple, and I only need them for calling people, which was the original function of a phone, the last time I checked. While I would like to get Talks sometime in the near future so I can take advantage of things like texting and caller ID, I'm not going to buy a Blackberry or an IPhone just because I can, I'll stick to a simple Nokia model.
As for music, personally I love vinyl. Vinyl stands the test of time, unlike cd's and tapes. Cd's to me are the worst because basically if you get one fingerprint on them, the whole thing is screwed up. I've had most of my CD's since I was 12 or so, and even though I barely even play them anymore, when I do they seem to skip even more than I remembered they did. Vinyl though is much more indestructible, I have a whole collection of 45's that still play perfectly, and since they're technically my parents' records they've been played a whole lot before I even touched them. Tapes of course had their shortcomings too, even though I was known for taking a tape recorder everywhere when I was a kid, but it just seems to me that, besides mp3's, vinyl is the only music medium that can stay around for a long time.
i have many many CDs here, all still work perfectly. I do agree about some of the phones haveing too many apps and such, but consider that you need to lookup something on the internet but your laptop isn't near, or is in a place with no internet. If your smartphone has data access and a web browser, bingo. You can look up what you need no fuss.
screaming_turtle, a fingerprint on a compact disk will not mean that it is ruined. Simply wipe the prints off with a non abrasive cloth. You can even wash CD's in soap and water to remove grime without doing any damage what so ever. Scratches are a bigger problem but then, the same could be said for final.
Dan.
To rat: Really? ia thought most cheap speakers and headphones aren't that good. I know my headphones are maybe $20 and I like them. They've got a nice stereo sound. Granted, they're nowhere near my Bose ones but they're good for typical use. I don't feel like carrying around hugely expensive headphones most of the time. I do have Bose speakers attached to my computer, but mostly because my other ones broke. Still, they do sound awesome! I wish I could get the original 60's speakers from them so I can put them in my stereo. Yes, things have manuals, and in certain cases, it's a very good idea to read them. But I shouldn't have to read a manual just to use a microwave, a toaster, a clock etc.
to screaming_turtle: Thank you! Huge huge hugs. I thought I was the only one on this site who likes phones that actually are just phones. You should really check out the Motorola Motofone F3. It's very cheap (I got mine for $30), super simple and even has voice prompts. But basically, all it does is makes and receives calls. It has an alarm clock, a phone book and sms functionality but that's about it. It's also insanely rugged and durable and the battery life is incredible! I love vinyl too and have a huge collection of records. I just need to get another player so that I can hook it up to my stereo, preferably one with 33, 45, 78 and 16 speeds. I hate cds too for the same reason! I think you're reading my mind. Scarey. lol Most of my records were given to me, so I had no control over their condition before I got them. Many of my 45s skip but most of my 33s are just fine. I love tapes but now mostly use my Muvo T100 because it's smaller and can hold 4gb of music. that said, the battery life isn't as good as on my walkmans.
I agree with Nick's post regarding post 30. Way to e closed-minded.
To Dez, that isn't right. I can tell you right now, that my CDS had fingerprints on the laser side, and they didn't do anything to them, and if they did start skipping, a quick rub with a piece of toilet paper fixed them right up. Also, regarding your phone being a lazy man's paradise, you can take off what you need if you like, you just have to know how to do it. Also, with Iphone OS 4, (not that you were illuding to that phone in particular), you'll be able to put your apps into folders. So for me, I'll either take the apps I don't want off, or place them into a folder called Not needed or something.
To tif don't those headphones cost about $200-$500 or somethign like that? For that price, I wouldn't buy them, I've heard my friends headset and they were not impressive. I have a pair of skullcandy in-ear headphones that I picked up for $20 at F.Y.E. To me, they sound much better then Bose but I guess that can all be debated.
Post 37: I was exaggerating, but only slightly. The point I was making was how cd's are much more prone to having problems, and how even when you're careful with them, they usually end up getting messed up, at least a few of the tracks, and with my luck it's usually the ones I like the most, lol. I don't deny that they're convenient to have, and my preference to vinyl is mostly because I grew up with it. Not many people of my generation can say that, and I just personally think it sounds better. For the most part though I stick to my mp3's now, nothing can happen to them unless my external drive crashes (knock on wood). Mike, I wasn't aware you could do that with the Iphone, but even still I'm not buying one. I think it's too expensive, and like I said I don't need all the crap that comes with it, and just the fact that all that extra stuff is there kind of pisses me off.
I'm an analog lover! I have a turntable that's quartz stabilized, is balanced to 1.5 grams, and has a diamond-tip stylus. I love the reel to reel format! That said, I'm so glad for my iPod, because I can carry my whole music collection in my pocket. I love my Mac, made in the Foxcon factory in China, because it helps me to be productive. I love my digital recording studio, because audio editing is so much easier when done in a non-linear format. Yes, analog sounds better. It doesn't cause listening fatigue, but know what? I'll trade that for having to calibrate tone-arm weights, tape servo speeds, and head alignments, etc. Remember, old tech was made far better, but also much more expensive, and if you want to spend the same money, dollar for dollar, you can still get the same build quality. It's all about what's important to you.
I think my Bose headphones are about $100. I'd never pay that much for a pair either. They were given to me as a gift like my speakers. I too have heard better headphones but don't own them. Interesting remarks on the analogue stuff. still, I wish I had that kind of amazing tech. I'm looking around for a Portastudio MF-P01, which is a really nice four-track recorder.
I agree that the phones today are overboard. I have a cell phone which acts as a phone only.
However, that's not the issue. We cannot turn back time and have an "anti-economy." It is not possible.
Besides, digital makes our lives simpler.
I won't disagree with you on that. I think with a lot of things, such as analog music, we can still enjoy it without bashing the new technology. I mean, people think I'm weird for thinking that way, but I try to appreciate both the old and the new, even if I have a preference for one or the other. As long as I can still get a phone that doesn't have a hundred features, I will. As long as I have both a turn table and mp3's, I'll be happy with both. If there's some way for me to label a stove, I won't bash it because it has a touch screen, but at the same time I do appreciate how dials and such are easier for blind people to manage. But it's like Margorp said, we can't turn back time. Maybe that's easy for me to say since I'm 20, and I don't know how things were 30 or 40 years ago, but I do know I find old technology fascinating, much more fascinating than today's tech. That doesn't mean it should stop growing and developing though.
I think you hit the nail on the head. As long as the good tech still exists, we don't need to worry about the other stuff. But when our options get taken away, we're either forced to use the new stuff or we have to come up with options. personally, if it ever really comes down to it, I'll just save up money and have my own tech custom-built. that way, I know it's garanteed to be the way I want it and to last. I might even have that done with my computer. In the meantime, there's still enough decent stuff out there that I don't need to go through that crazy and expensive step. If we want to look at it economically, then we need to support the manufacturers of simple tech so that they realise there's still a market for such goods. Seers still sells a really nice manual stove. It's on their site if it's not in a store near you. Also, the good will stores usually have interesting things.
margorp, what kind of phone do you have? I forgot to ask.
Okay. Maybe that was a bit out of line about what I said about touch screens can go and die, but I personally find them very annoying, and I really don't see the point, but if you like them, more power to you. I'm not antidigital myself, and there are a lot of great things it has done for us, but it takes, hmm, let's see, maybe a second or two longer to press a button than it does to use a touch screen. Plus, you don't have to worry about accidentally touching it. I'm closed-minded just because I don't like the latest and greatest technology? Um, okay. By that logic, I could say the same for you, considering you seem to think that these things are better just because they're newer. Sorry, but that's not always the case. My grandma has a computer, running Windows 98, that she still uses, to this day. Okay, so she won't be able to play some of the games we like to play these days, install Winamp and a few other programs, but this computer has outlived so many of the computers made to run XP and Vista.
Bravo gia sena! I like the way you think. I don't get what people have against buttons either, especially when the response time is the same.
While technologically I see a lot of advantages to the gesture technology that is now being propagated, I doubt it will ever be universal. Many don't like it, my wife who is sighted for one. I could show her an iPad, show her how simple it is to use, and I think she'd just tell me to send it back ... or keep it myself.
It's not adoption because o1f being new, it's what gesture as a UI technology will provide us. You see it now on phones, and that's a great place to try it out, but there's a lot of promise with it for training simulations and the like.
Remember, gesture isn't just about touch and swipe, it's about a multidimensional approach to interfaces.
Many of the mechanical marvels of the 19th century were first tried out on trinkets / toys, then moved to industrial machinery. Even the mechanical piggy banks who received coins, and based on what coin they got, performed different actions were great experiments on gear ratios as applied to industrial mechanics.
But just as not all piggy banks made in that era were mechanical, not all phones will be touch screen. I don't see a lot of touch applied yet to the enterprise market, simply because entering data is not nearly as rapid as from a keyboard of some kind, Mac fanboys aside.
I imagine what we'll see down the road is a hybrid solution where the advantages of gesture are balanced with the advantages of button / key entry, at least in enterprise solutions where people have to get real work done that doesn't involve just text messages and uploading nudies to Facebook or Myspace, or playing with audio.
i'm sick and tired, up to here, too through, fed up, bla bla bla, with hearing how bad technology is and busy we are. our generation is no busier then any other. we just have different priorities and spend time on things which it can be argued may not be necessary.
ask the ladies in my generation who did everything by hand. there were no gas or electric dryers. my mom had a washer that you had to feed the clothes in to it and it rung the water out. she had to stand there and futz with it for hours. the day my dad got her an automatic washer, the kind like we have now-a-days, she literally kissed his feet. hanging out clothes in the frigid frosty furious winds of winter was another special activity women in the halcion days of leisure "enjoyed." Oh, Do any of you ladies or gents remember starch? It was this horrendous glop that you stirred on top of the stove. This was before the spray variety. how many of you iron? I remember that was a mega death of boring!!!! I sprinkled the clothes, and then mom ironed. that was the only day i got to watch tv. she hated the ironing so much and i bugged her with a zillion questions so I got to watch andy of mayberry.There were no microwaves and damned few tv dinners. Oh yes, no fast food either. My mom cooked, cleaned, and coped as best she could.
Do you people who have the luxury of decrying technology remember when it wasn't here? Do you remember not being able to find books on subjects that interested you becaus the libraries didn't have them? I remember getting best sellers a year after they were out for the general public. I'd come in to work or school all excited and hear "ho hum. that's yesterday's news."
Cell phones are a wonderful thing. My kids and I get along great. Having a daughter it is so relieving for me to know that she has a phone and doesn't have to go scouring and scrounging around for a pay phone in an emergency. My daughter n law works the night shift. her husband sleeps better knowing this dread item keeps her safe.
Tif, try living without the stuff you hate. I dare you to do so for a week. I guar an damn tee you we'll be hearing from you ahead of the deadline.
Great post and alot of things to consider. as for me, I really can't do that, even if I wanted to, because I don't own any of the types of things that I hate. My microwave and stove have dials, my stereo is all manual, my phone and mp3 player is simple and even my "new" laptop for XP is 6-years-old and made very well. I don't use dvds or watch television anymore, just my vhs tapes and tv through the net, should the mood strike me. even my coffee maker goes on the stove. that said, if I wanted to not use some of these modern things for a week, it would be very interesting. At least then, I could get away from the computer, with the exception of my Greek lessons, which I want to continue to do. maybe, I could take out the KeyNote Gold and write some stuff or play around with my slate and stylus. Now there's one thing that's too old and tedius even for me, though it's fun to use on occasion. As for ironing, Grandma and Joanie do it all the time. Grandma also sews both by hand and on a fairly old machine, though she does less of that now because of her chronic arthritis. No one else in the house knows how to do it, so we wind up taking things to the tailor nowadays.
watching TV on the net. now, thats interesting concept. will watching TV on the net more advance than watching Television itself? i bet it does. if one said she or he is so anti degital, / technology, for god sake, isn't internet a part of the technology? with the broadcasting tools around, if, there's no digital sydnal, i truely doubt that one can watch TV successfully on the net. if against TV or DVD is because they ard digital, i think, i'm quite ready to bang my head against the wall.
vedio tapes is great, but, tell me any new title, i mean, in 2009/10 title that one can get in tape. if one does, do let me know, i'm very interested. bet, perhaps, to watch new movies, will be using torrent or some other website that offer one. and what does that call? not technology? just a piece of plustic chip from the 1700?
the whole idea of going digital is to make thing cheeper, and more assessable. yes, that might not true for us, the blindies, but if we look in general, take camera for example, how many people can own a camera in 20 years back, and how many people theoricly own a camera now. back then, we need to wait for weeks before the photos can develop before we can do anything about it. ad , you can view them alsmot less than 1 second. that is a success. now, one might think thats nothing to do with them because we can't see, but, thats a movement. also, you can basicly buy a camera for $50 and you know it will take reasonable short, put in a 1gb sd card, that will perhaps serve your purpose for years, but, if you buy the old fession camera, you need to worry about it's life and what sort of on going cost you need to getting new flame and stuff.
i'm not saying digitise is the best, take camera for example, there's hundrets of prove that an analog vedio camera is much better than a digital vedio camera. however, not many people will go to buy an analog camera for no reason, because they love old technology. its heavy, troublesome, and require lots of care and hours of edditing. also, if one wanting to capture for long hours they need to take hundrets of tapes with them. that is hassel.
the whole idea of going digital, or so call better technology is to make things more assessable for all users. of course, there're always user choice on what they choose to use, just that, when things dont work for them, dont winge about them
I never said I was against computer or technology in general. All computers are digital, unless you go way back to mechanical ones like the antikithara mechanism. I'm not against television or vhs either. what I'm against is regular things, like kitchen appliances, radios, phones etc. going digital unnecesarily. However, television can be included, since there are now all sorts of menus and nonsense to deal with, along with digital recorders that are inaccessible. But again, this was not my point. As for why I watch videos on the net, that is purely digital. It's not like I have to add crap to my computer to get it to be able to work with these things. I can't use the regular remote or the numbers on my tv to change channels because I have to hook it up to digital cable. and that's another thing. Why are there hundreds of channels? Disposable cameras, that use real film, are far cheaper than their digital counterparts, about $10 or less, and take very good pictures. Having the film developed can be a bit costly. still, there are instant cameras like Poloaoids or whatever other companies still make them. Even so, it doesn't take that long for pictures to be developed. I like the feel of a real picture, though I'll admit that the digital ones are easier to transfer. Cheaper doesn't always mean better. While there are certainly good bargains out there, today it often means the quality sucks. I'd rather pay once for something that'll last for many years than to have to keep buying the same thing and wasting money. We have some original polaroid cameras and they still work fine. They're over 40-years-old. there's no reason why the average home user can't use analogue cameras, aside from the weight and the tapes. they're alot cheaper, and if you invest in good quality tapes, they'll last a fairly long time. But for professionals or if you really do want to save your work for future generations, sure, a digital camera will work fine. Many laptops and netbooks come with them, though, so there's no reason to go out and buy truly expensive stuff even there.
I have found "old fashioned" stoves in stainless steel or clear steel from GE, till now, so I don't think that new technologies mean that no old style ones survive, it's about increased choice.
Regarding CDs vs vinyl, the real revolution was not the CD, only technically in that they figured out how to present music digitally, which was the breakthrough. The breakthrough was the step when they compressed the sound files into .mp3s and other formats and made them portable. I can take 4 gigabytes of songs or audio books with me on a player that fits in any pocket, is in fact tiny. This amounts to probably 3 or 4 30 hours audio books (depending on sound quality, I have no problem with 92kbps sound quality on audio books), probably equivalent to about 120 to 150 cassettes, no silly things to change out, no heavy things to drag around, you can put in book marks and highlight interesting sections for revisiting later, skip between chapters, this is an amazing revolution to me, I went through the Sony Walkman cassette player to cd player and I'd never trade any of that junk for my Creative Zenstone (sorry, come to think of it, it's only 2gb, not 4).
Ok, I did not do the math so I might be off here by 10 or 20%, but it's pretty close to the real life scenario.
Without digitizing music in the first place this would never have been possible, and the spread of CDs as a digital medium gave rise to this new and exciting possibility.
Regarding cameras, I've seen 8 or 9 mp cameras for $50, I do not think corresponding quality cameras were even remotely close to that price point in the analog world, a digital camera allows you to take hundreds of pictures, sort them, delete the ones you don't like and then keep the ones you do like, and this would never be possible with an analog camera, not unless you were willing to pay huge sums of money for developing the films. For super high end, I belive analog cameras are still outperforming digital, and vinyl definitely has its warmth and depth for some people in the music world, so there's still a place for those in certain situations, but the digital world has brought the camera and the joy of pictures to the masses (not to the blind, obviously, but others).
As for phones, I have not seen the point of playing music on my phone, because it drains the battery too quickly, but merging a phone and a gps solution, email and calednar is completely brilliant. I can use my phone to help me find my way back, if I get lost, or find my way to nearest restaurant or gas staion or ATM etc, if the phones main role is to keep you safe and keep you in touch with other people it's great that it has these possibilities, and if one does not choose to use them, that's fine. The mobile phone itself is brilliant. Do you guys remember trying to organize a meet up place and time with friends, someone dropped you off and your friends wouldn't show up right away, remember how stressful and worrying that was, no way to get hold of them.?
The microwave itself is brilliant, the instant foreman grills, makes cooking quick, healthy and easy even for those who are not least bit interested (ok, it gives you healthy choices, especially the grill, not saying all Microwave meals are healthy, though they are getting a lot better now compared to a few years back, just read a report on that).
Technology might go too far, for those who have read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the galaxy, there's a ridiclously funny chapter where the guy gets annoyed because he merely has to move, or may be even think about a different station, to change the channel on his radio, because it started with a dial, then remote, than hand gesture and it developed from there.
But these types of over sensitive interfaces won't work, the consumer will dictate what works and what doesn't, and what technologies, or combination of technologies, will really make life easier for all, and I think as long as there are a distinct set of needs there will be choices to meet them.
Beautiful post here. You should really try the Muvo T100. It's from Creative, the same company that makes the zenstone and is very similar in opperation, except that it really does have 4gb of music. I got mine on ebay for $14 and adore it. Like the zenstone, you just copy and paste music into it and delete as you would from any drive. Despite my liking simple phones, the idea of a gps and a scanner in one device that's actually portable enough to go anywhere is enough to make my mouth water. I don't care if it's in a phone or in it's own separate device or even two separate devices. I'd love to get something like that if only for these capabilities. but the price, of course, is way too high. I wonder if there's a compact gps and a really portable scanning solution that's cheaper than the KNFB Reader, the N82/other phone and the gps in that? If so, what is it?
Tiff, I really fail to understand how you can stay behind the times. Oh, and to answer your question, I have a nokia which talks.
My phone can pretty much sink your problems. yes it has a touch screen, but it also can almost be completely control by it's slide out keyboard. Now, me personally i use both touch screen and keyboard as it's quicker for me. Also, how can you say stuff is made cheap? my phone got thrown completely off me a couple days ago, from at least 3 feet in the air landed on a concrete porch. no harm done at all, heck don't even know if anything happened to the case. I do agree that some stuff like washers and stuff are getting hard for us to use, but it's called adapting them. it's really not that hard to do if you honestly give them a chance instead of rebelling and say these are no good, they shouldn't be made. It's closed minded people like you that are making things hard on the blind population. Instead of actually trying to adapt things, or learning about what can be done you complain about how complicated things are becoming.
rat right on!!! you are totally correct.
Yes, my new gas stove is digital and I love it. The bbeauty part of this is that it has three different kinds of burners. One is like a blow torch and will bring a kettle to the boil in 30 secconds. Then there are two which are normal burners, and one which only simmers. How wonderful it is to put the spaghetti sauce or chili on and leave it.
My oven is digital but when it is turned on it starts at a speciffic place. To get the temp correct I click the up and down arrows a certain amount of times. Each click is five degrees.
To find this, it took research and shopping. Oops, I forgot. It's harder to do those activities then it is to whine and moan. When
wildebrrew, as for the digital cameras, It is wonderful to get pictures and be able to email them to others. I love it as well, because my son can email me shots of the grand daughter and on the bottom he writes a
description of what is in each. It is a kind thing to do and makes me feel a part of everything.
My daughter, who is blind, has a point and shoot digital camera. She uses it on all kinds of stuff. Then, her sighted friends go through it with her, and she keeps the good pics and sends them through the email or whatever. Last summer when she got her guide dog, she put together a digital slide show of the experience which was enjoyed by many sighted friends and family. It vividly brought the experience to them in a way to which they could really relate.
All of need to think outside tdhe box. If we step beyond the borders we manufacture, we will learn that the world is an amazing place.
I don't do, think or say things for the benefit of the blind community. I'm an individual, and when I'm looking at technology that I'm considering buying, I'm usually the only one on my mind, since I'll be the one using it. I can wait an extra minute or two for my tea kettle and coffee maker to start. while I love cooking and hwile I'm not afraid of the stove, the idea of having such a powerful burner doesn't really appeal to me for safety reasons. The simmer one sounds like a nice touch but I've let things simmer on the stove for an hour or two without a problem. I've also got a crock pot which is built for that. Rat, it seems like you've got a great phone, at least as far as durability. I'm not sure if it'll match mine in that regard, since that's one of it's selling points, but it sounds like it comes close. That's neat. turricane, I must say that I'm very impressed with your daughter. I've never heard of blind people taking pictures like that. a few, sure, but not so many and turning out wonderfully. I'm actually interested in gettin a Minulta Talker. It tells you when it too dark and to use flash. I'm not sure if it says anything else, but even that should be a help. Plus, i hear it's a good quality camera.
Technology has done a lot of really great things for us, but in some ways, it has hindered us. Look at all these kids now adays, bringing their Ipods to dinner and listening to them while the rest of the family is talking, and texting their friends and going on MSN on their phones instead of being social with the family, and going online all day instead of going out to hang out with their friends. These things are all great and wonderful, in moderation, but a lot of younger people, especially, are going way overboard with these things, and a lot of it has to do with advertisements. I don't think technology should disappear in the least, but toning it down might be a good option.
Totally agreed here. It's great for many things but it's also eroding a very basic human trait, that of actual communication. I don't text and wouldn't bring my mp3 player to the table when in company but I also don't call most people on the phone. I usually send e-mails or ims. this is especially bad in my case, given that many of my friends are older and don't use these options as much as the regular telephone.
In some cases it's not the technology that's causing the social problems but the parents who haven't done anything to control their kids habbits in it's regards, or who have tried too hard to control it so the kid does it to say i do what i want and you can't control me. As for one problem we faced you summed it up beautifully. I only consider stuff for myself as i'll be the one using it. Did it occur to you what you do or say will impact all the rest of us especially if it's a small group of people who haven't had much contact with other blind people? Certainly some people won't use some features on what they have, but others will use them and love it. Use the bits you like, and if you don't like something on what ever it is, just don't use it. no need to say there has to be a model made that doesn't have that feature or what not.
Oh boy. Here we go with that nonsense. I also represent Greek patriots, women, socialists, Hellenic Polytheists, 26-year-olds, smokers etc. Should I stop every time I do something and consider all the groups that I represent? Not everyone in a single group, let alone in many, agrees with everything. So I'm bound to find conflict between my beliefs and those of the group/s of which I'm a part. I'll admit that in some cases, such as wearing my flag pin and not blowing smoke in people's faces, my actions help a certain group's reputation, but that's certainly not why I do these things. Whether people have had contact with a particular group or not doesn't matter to me. I am what I am, and if they don't see me as me, that's their problem. As far as technology, as I've said, I'm not the only one who feels this way. so are you basically saying that the sighted are allowed to complain and say they want simpler things but that I, as a blind person, can't? sorry but I don't buy that. As for parents, you're absolutely right. It's not all technology's fault. Parents have forgotten how to be parents and some people shouldn't be parents in the first place.
Most other groups i've seen spring back from those that make them look bad, or they're not as noticed. we blind people don't seem to have that much luck with that from what i've noticed. I haven't really seen many sighted people complaining about tech these days, only if something isn't easy enough, meaning more touch related stuff in less presses of the pad.
the problem with kids bringing ipods to the dinner table and texting their buds at the same place is not the fault of the technology. It's a piss poor parenting problem, otherwise known as a four p situation. In my house no toys, be they action figures, stuffed animals, or cell phones may accompany dinner guests to my table. My kids fall in to that category.
I teach sunday school to middle schoolers. Every week, we do the bartender in the old west routine. You know at snarky sam's saloon the james gang had to hand all of their side arms to the dispenser of adult beverages. On the way in, one of us shakes our hand in their face. If they'are acarryin, they gotta hand 'er over. If we catch the offender, they have to do something embarrassing. This varies from week to week. So far no one has been caught. When they leave the class they get them back. At first the kids were uncomfortable. Now, guess what? They construct entire sentences and present well organized points. what a shock!!!!
People fail to remember a basic tennant of physics. Water and expectations find their levels.
Rat, I also agree with you. I also agree with the point of parents really not knowing how to be parents anymore, and mine do the same as what Turricane does, no electronics or toys at the table, whether its with company, or just us.
This is true. Parents who allow this have nothing to complain about, since their actions are showing their kids that having these things at the table is okay. Mine actually allowed it for awhile, until my sister started getting comments on her report card that she was listening to her Ipod instead of paying attention.
Not that I'm picking on anyone...because I'm not. But the only one's I've ever seen complain so much about technology are...well...the elderly.
Margop hon,
please fclarify your statement for me. elderly is an attitude. let's say that age is a number. how our souls and hearts work determines our actual age. i have an uncle who got his masters in computer science at 86. i have a 60 year old brother who doesn't know how to use one and has no interest in a cell phone. i have a 55 year old friend who neither owns a pc or a microwave. don't even mention a cell phone in her vicinity. ji know a 30 year old who won't drive at night because "something might happen." I know a 40 year old who didn't know what an ipod was. so age is a numbetr.
Ouch. Turricane hit you right back. Nice.
My boyfriend will be turning 65 next month and uses a cell phone and a computer. On the phone, he texts, uses voicemail and talks and on the computer he goes on ebay, watches videos on youtube and checks e-mail. I also know a 73-year-old and knew an 81-year-old who use/d a computer. That said, I do think it's a bit more common for certain age groups to not use as much modern technology just as many younger people don't know how to do things without it.
I agree, there are plenty of older people who are using computers. I don't mind that, but it does bother me when they go on social networks. I really can't stand it when I see my aunts and uncles in their 50's playing Farm Ville, I really don't know why it bothers me but it just seems weird to me.
Now taht I've completely gone off topic...
lol I like when older men go on dating sites. It makes it easier for me to find them.
I have to say, I think the elderly being the only ones to complain about technology is a bit too general. I know many of them are set in their ways, but many are not, and many of young people are set in their ways as well.
i have seen messages on this board from many of the youn ger generation who will "never change." Suffice it to say that that is a long time not to reevaluate an opinion and a typical attitude supposedly espoused by senior citizens.
quite agree. the creater of this board is indeed in her mid-20s if memory serve me right. but behave like a 200 years old...
it come to personal prefference and choice. i see some people in their 70s or 80s still actively changing their car to later modle, changing from, dare i say, a normal TV to plasma TV, changing a old-fession cook top to those new touch-screen magnectic top, from old nokia 3210 to nokia n97, or IPhone. so, its fairly depends on personal choice.
and is not fair to say the least, elderly are the one who can't adapt. infact, might be surprising to find that, elderly might be the one who easier adapt to new stuff than the younger generation. we got too confort on what we have... *smile*
Yes, I'm 26. lol But I don't think I act like I'm 200. I do like some modern tech, just not the ridiculous stuff.
Tech is great. I just don't know why they're thrusting it upon us as if the old stuff is against the law or something. If it still works, why can't we use it? I can't even find things like VCR's in stores now, and it's hard to find stoves in stores that aren't flat top.
i don't believe anyone is holding any of you up against a wall and saying change or die. when I went to buy my stove a year ago, there were plenty of options. I can't imagine things have changed that much. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong stores? I went to the sears appliance center and to appliance land and had no trouble. I got the stove from the former because the price was the same and I liked the sales lady better. I was torn between two models. She said "i'm not supposed to influence you but my mom is blind from birth and uses this one. she loves it." so I figured all things being equal i'd take the one she offered, which, by the way, was cheaper.
why are you guys hung up on vcrs? let's see, they eat tapes. they have poorer recording quality, and they are big and bulky. with a laptop and a dvd drive you can take your movies anyway. ditdto with a stream.
Yes, Seers has excellent tech, including the older types. I'd definitely go there if I were you. As for vcrs, you could probably get good quality ones on ebay, provided you do your homework on the model and read up on the condition of the particular one being sold. there are also places that sell high quality and commercial quality tapes so you don't have to deal with the old standards. As for why we like vcrs, video cameras etc, some of us like to watch films through an actual television once in awhile. I'll admit that I love youtube etc. but sometimes, I just want to get away from the pc and turn on the tv. As I've said, vhs is far more accessible than dvds. At one point, I looked up Beta max on Wikipedia, and it seems that the last film was put on that medium only a few years ago (not sure of the year but it was definitely after 2000). So apparently, there are others who prefer analogue media as well. Just for extra info, the last film was put on vhs in 2007.
Well, I really don't like VCR's all that much. It was just an example.
Turricane, I think it is great that your uncle got that degree but let me ask:
At that age, how could he apply it? I am not picking on the elderly...I simply made an observation based on what I have seen throughout my lifetime.
Perhaps, he just wanted to learn, to have it for himself. Hey, why not? If he could do it, more power to him.
oh I agree and I think it is wonderful.
The Queen of England, in her eighties, has been using the web since the 1990s and proudly so, engaging others her age and in her circle to do so. Age has less to do with it than how one thinks. My dear better half is not the techology-curious that I am, and generally has to be led into it. Just recently got her to use Firefox. Agree with those that say age has little to do with it, if anything.
I have two dvd players and watch stuff on my tv all the time. These are easy to use, and the fidelity is far superior to the wa wa wa of the vcr. Also the tapes don't get eaten and they are easier to move around in then the vcr movies.
The minute we stop learning we begin to die. That happens to some of us at 18 and some of us at 88. Knowledge acquisition and use is the biggest adventure we undertake.
That's true. Some people peak earlier than others.
I do enjoy my higher quality DVD's, and the ability to buy movies online as a digital download so I don't have to go to the store, but let me ask you this: Was identity theft as much of a problem before the world went digital? Sure, it existed, but was it anything to worry about?
Yes it was. It was always a concern as far back as the egyptians actually. As soon as documentation was done people have been ripping others off.
Margorp *THANK YOU!!!*
Most of the advanced Identity Theft techniques actually don't use software to acquire the information: They use what you throw out in the trash, and what you silly survey lovers fill out at the stores when they want you to fill out a little survey about your interests after you buy an appliance or something. Identity theft has gotten a lot more attention now, and we are more easily able to catch the perps, but it's been around under different names for a long long time.
And now i'm gonna rant yet again: Identity theft is a really serious crime, because the victim may not know they've been victimized for months or even years when their credit scores are way down. How does one rescue a reputation? There is no full restitution for identity theft.
I see your point. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that one crime will lead to another. For example, if some hacker gets into your computer and hacks your Email account, they get your password, plus any other information you store there, but they can also get access to all of your contacts, and in turn, hack their accounts, find their passwords, all their information, and all their contacts, and the vicious circle continues. Of course, that can't happen without something by your own input, but there are so many people who wouldn't think anything of a message such as: "We have detected that your computer is infected with a virus. Please click on the following link to remove the infection.". Sure, anybody who is familiar with how virus programs work will know that this sounds a little suspicious if the message is not given by your antivirus program itself, but then again, some hackers will actually make it look like it is coming from your program, and the website address will be as little as one letter different from the official site.
that's where common sence really comes in, for one if it's from your anti-virus it won't have you go to a web site in most cases, as going on the internet could spread the virus to other machines. second, most of the emails you mention are usually caught by spam filters, and if they aren't, people need to realize that not everything is true. i for one am very picky about email. if i wasn't expecting it, good bye message.
That's right. Common sense seems to be the common dinominator in all of these topics. Perhaps people should start using it and many of our problems will go away.
common sense is not so common.
And it doesn't always make sense.
I'm bringing this up, since we were discussing technology and the blind in the "Biggotry of Ideas" thread. I think this one has alot of interesting viewpoints from various sides of the argument and touches on several things that I said there. I think it's better to bring this thread back, where alot of them have been discussed, than to start another circular argument on that one, which can, perhaps, go in a different direction. I know that we've had several new people join The Zone so I wanted to give them the chance to see this. Sorry to those who've already read all of these, but if you want to respond, feel free to do so.
To answer the questions on vcrs they're alot easier to use than the dvd players that hook up to tvs. Can you navigate all the menus and choose specific scenes with a dvd as the sighted can when you're not using a program in your computer like VLC Media Player? It's true that we can't be totally precise with a vhs tape but it's alot easier to control as far as knowing how much time it takes to get from one point to another. It's also easier to use a vhs recorder to tape shows, particularly if you purchase a talking remote. Then, you can easily set the time and date of the recording. While you can't read an online guide as the sighted can with a tivo, you don't have to worry about complicated menus and things either.
I figured I should bring this back to the top, since I just wrote an essay called Keep It Simple: My Views on Life and Tech where I referenced this one. Of course, if no one responds, I'll leave it alone, but thought it would beasier to have it near the top incase anyone wanted to read it without having to search for it.
People like you raved in the year 1999 and, since they couldn't wait for January 1, 2000, they came up with weird dates and times and even stranger reasons for why things would allegedly break down.
So who'd be interested in a time travel to 10,000 years ago to watch the agricultural revolution? We could see if there was a bunch of throwbacks then, people claiming it was all worse now because people could grow their own food, rather than wait on the hit or miss they called the magic of Nature to provide.
In a sense you can go back to the Industrial revolution and see it: Look up the letter sent to Union Pacific, I think it was, full of religious and tthrowback undertones about the unnatural speed of fifteen miles per hour. According to that woman, cheetahs must have been unnatural creatures sporting 40 miles per hour at times.
Evolution happens to resolve problems, not 'just because'. Then the throwback is the one not old enough to remember what it was really like, wanting to take some of what's new, retrofit it over and onto a preexisting environment, and live out a life of constant struggle to keep that bubble inflated.
thank you, Leo; very well said.
Some of what's talked about on this board is much like the beginning of Milton Viorst's IN THE SHADOW OF THE PROPHET, which I started yesterday. He is actually a lover of Arab culture, but in talking about how behind the rest of the world the Muslim Arabs especially are, he says, and am not quoting verbatim here, "You can't catch up with the rest of the world carving olivewood camels." He notes the beautiful craftsmanship, but in visiting Jerusalem some years back, noted the 'glitzy', flashy, modern jewelery Jewish merchants sold by comparison, and how much better off the Jews, Asian, western population by comparison to the Arabs. I thought of previous talks on game preserves when he noted Arab populations had a tendency to insulate from other cultures and what they had to teach. One example of this is how in Algeria, and this is something told to me by a French speaking relative there, Arab parents don't want their kids to learn French as "the Qu'ran was revealed in Arabic." Well duh, but there's nothing in there that says you can't learn a foreign language. Educationally behind, technologically behind, and culturally insulated, this is why these folks are languishing.
I'm fully a supporter of handmade items as I intend on becoming a craftswoman in the very near future. That said, I never said, either on this thread or in the other one, that people should act like the Aimish and shun everything or nearly everything modern. I merely call for simplicity, and in this thread especially, a lck of unnecessary choices for the average home consumer of electronics.
Lack of unnecessary choices? Back to the U.S.S.R.? Hmm I know people who lived there then, and lack of choices deemed unnecessary is one of the worst parts of what they remember.
There's a big difference between a government choosing what's necessary and that choice being made by consumers.
Now I'm not against your keeping your appliance that work, but my question is what is going to happen when they start to fail, as older appliances have a tendency to do. It's consumer demand that determines what is available. With more digital appliances available, is anyone going to be trained to fix analogue equipment? Wouldn't most of who is already trained have adapted to & gotten trained in the newer equipment?
An example of sticking with the original because it worked took place in an opthalmology clinic where I worked some years ago. A patient stuck with her original hard lenses because she was content with 'em. The nearsightedness surgery she wanted required this type of lens to be out of the eye for 6 weeks, compared with a day or two for soft or rigid gas permeable lenses. This required an adjustment to a soft lens that most of the rest of the contact lens wearing world had already made, delayed the date she could have come in for her physical, and required another adjustment once her surgery went badly. I doubt there is any physician who even dispenses the original hard lenses anymore, as it is hard to find even those who dispense the rigid gas permeable, or RGP. Most contact lens wearers like the rapid adjustment to soft lenses, the options they have with athletic activity as they fit under the lids & don't usually fall out, so physicians are trained to dispense increasingly only soft lenses as this is where the consumer demand is. Would you have a hard time finding someone to repair your analogue appliances? If you had to replace 'em, most likely you would have to learn the newer technology. I hope your appliances hold up, but if not good luck either finding a replacement or repairman.
Well, there are many singer sewing machines that are over 100-years-old which are still working today and the same holds true for some clothes wringers from the 1880's. Many old telephones and Perkins Braillewriters that are over 40-years-old can also be found in good condition and are still in service. The good thing about some of this tech, at least, is that it was made with interchangeable parts. The real trouble comes when you get something that's rare or specialised. For instance, it's far more difficult to get a hardware speech synthesizer or braille printer replaced than to get a part for a typewriter or a coffee maker. That said, I've seen several sites which repair technology far older than that which I use, even one man who fixes and sells Opticons! So anything is possible if you have the time, the money and the patience. Of course, if you have the know-how and the problem is easily fixed, that's even better.
I suppose that it's a bit different in the case of medical things, since the people who know how to make and use them and/or put things in patients are extremely specialised and few of them exist today. Getting an old wooden cane is one thing. Finding someone who knows how to do vendouzes (hot cups on the back) is quite another.
I respect the fact that you've got an opinion, But I take issue when you label things as not needed, just because they don't fit your spec. Just as you see annoiance in some of us saying things that you aspire to are not needed and it annoies you to quite a degree, I wonder on how in many cases with even less thought and justification, you seek to trample what others seem to have prefference for. Many invensions wouldn't be given the freedom to shine in a restrictive stail market you seem to believe in, and I see no reason to strike inovation from the world just because things work as they are. With that logic, we would never have trains, cars, electricity... Much less user repairable parts. In short, you are attempting to blend two counter arguments into something that has cohesion, and its not holding up all that well. You do make some good points, but they are grounded in the wrong thesus.
I'm not saying that these things shouldn't be available at all. This would make no sense. But things should,and thankfully still do in most cases, have plainer counterparts for those of us who really don't need the extra features or who prefer the old style designs etc.
keep livin' in your dream world. more power to ya.
I'm not the only one who does or none of these things would still be made.
Ok, I was confused, because you had stated and implied in some of your posts that you thought choice should be limited to an accessive degree.
I'd just like to point out that in many ways the agricoltural revolution could be considered a reduction of quality of life since the average life span decreased by a signifficent amount at least initially.
True Jared, and industrial accidents initially were a real concern in the industrial revolution. And now, we again face accidents, if you will, accidents of privacy / data mishandling, restructuring of economies and the like. Evolution is no bed of roses, that's for sure.
And Eleni, the statement of Upgrade for the sake of upgrade, is just silly and reactionary. Consumers spend their hard-earned money on products they think will benefit them, new old or indifferent. The only exception are the Justin-Bieber-concert-goers, who are sponsored by their parents, in which case they want to spend their parents' hard-earned-money to appear cool. But, as Myspace found out, that age group isn't a viable market in the long run.
So, for most purchasing consumers, you've got it wrong: people upgrade for what something offers them, not just to upgrade. Maybe you can find a man-bites-dog scenario where someone did that but you continuously use that expression, and I can tell you as one who's been in technology for over fifteen years, people usually hold onto something till it doesn't work anymore, or until they need to do something it won't do for them, then they buy a new one.
And these are working people providing for themselves and their kids, not rich jet setters or people supported by the state who don't have the same concerns in the same way.
So if these people hold onto what works for them, why do you seem to have such a problem with me using things and looking for things which work for me? I suppose one of the reasons why I think that most people are like that is because I constantly hear about them purchasing new phones, televisions, computers, IPods and the like and in my home, Joanie is like that. She has about four tivos, a 61 inch tv, a flat pannel tv and my parents both change their mobile phone at least once every year or every two years. Mom's also been known to throw perfectly working things out just to get a more modern version of them, though usually, they stick around and get thrown in boxes while said new versions are used. So while my perception may be wong, I can't help but imagine most individuals to be that way when my friends and family mostly act like that.
Mobile phones get upgraded for something new that it offers.
As to multiple Tivos, I don't know: But I do know people went to Tivo because of what it offered them.
Holding onto old ideals and trying to deliberately use old technology for the sake of it is as silly as the alleged upgrade for sake of upgrade.
I, too, have a Soni Walkman radio - no tape or CD with it just a radio - for when I'm in the garage or outside smoking a pipe simply because I haven't bothered updating a rather small music collection from CD to MP3- but that's not ideals it's just convenience. And, if I couldn't have found it anymore when I bought it, I'd've just done something else.
And, some things don't change: A hammer's just a hammer and it does what it's advertised to do.
Maybe, but all my parents use them for is to call one another and I think they text occasionally, Joanie more than Mom. As for me, I just use them for calls and the same holds true for Grandma. Neither of us want to keep changing our phones just because a free one is offered. If it works, why change? For instance, I know that I like the Braille Blazer embosser. It's light, has a built-in synth and can write on regular as well as braille paper. There are many much more expensive models out there which are better. But why, since I found a nice one on Ebay, should I rush out to get a modern one when this meets my needs? I could understand if I was a professional transcriber, had to emboss many things at once or needed to use larger paper but that's not the case. As a matter of fact, I have a Versapoint Duo that's just sitting here doing nothing because the Blazer is far easier to use.
Even I have to do different things if I can't find what I want. But that doesn't mean that I can't at least try looking around for it before deciding to try something else. lol So long as it's made of strong material and doesn't break, you're right about the hammer.
This topic has gotten really, long, so I’ll add my 5 cents.
Why I’m pro digital.
Digital technology has done much for us. We are now able to do things that we could not before, and we still have many products that work without seeming to be digitized, but have benefited from digitation, if that is a word. I’m only going to touch on a few things here, because a book would be required to cover it all, and I don’t have the knowledge in my head to write it, or the space, so.
I’ll start with medical. We have better devices, such as glasses; can be made cheaper and widely prescripted for different people. The average pair or reading glasses cost about 4 to 10 dollars, and they enable many adults that are not necessarily visually impaired to read comfortable, due to eye changes that come with age. Hearing aids can now be programmed with many different settings or even adjust automatically to different environments. Think about the war veteran that has lost a limb, we now have limbs that mimic feeling enabling people to use them more naturally and they are fitted more comfortably do to digital design or what is called cad, computer aided design. Our surgeons can now do complicated operations actual seeing and to some extent feeling the procedure they are doing, where before they only worked by feel. Pacemakers, medicine delivery, and I could go on and on.
Architecture has advanced greatly. We can now build building that are not only interesting looking, but safer, able to withstand earth quakes, tornado wind forces, and even help third world countries build affordable habitats, because computers are able to mimic the climates and design housing that works. The plans are then delivered via email. In your New York the towers going up on the ground zero side are going to be fabulous due to cad, we have a building here in Denver that is the arts museum that is made of hexagon shaped modules, that people actually live in and store art in. It has the arts center ion the ground floor and apartments above. In L.A the Disney music hall is acoustically wonderful and different due to Cad.
Rescue or preservation of life. We recently had mine colas and the miners were stranded for days, but due to digital cameras the rescue crew could send a wireless camera down the shaft, so the engineers could see and figure out how to remove the fall the correct way to save lives. Without this technology these miners would have been a lost cause.
The fun factor, or accessibility factor. We as blind people can now ccess the web, read the news, learn about things we had to wait until the news was days, or even weeks old just as quickly as anyone else using our computers. We can post silly things on Youtube, as you often say you like to do Elena, just like anyone else. Hours of music and video for anyone can be carried in a pocket, whereas analog recordings were only able to have about 120 minutes of music, and video had to be carried on large tapes. Movies, even for the visually impaired are more exciting. We can go to a movie and ask for a headset that will audio describe what everyone else is watching at the exact same time making dating a sighted person much more fun, or making it possible for 2 blind people to go to a movie and enjoy it without sighted assist. You just grab your headset, buy the popcorn and boom booms and sit back like you own it. Smile. Last you rail about appliances and such eking digital, but many are just plain switches and nobs, however, due to Cad better designed, and more reliable.
You can be anti digital and use digital products Eleni. You’d have to give up your computers, microwave, TV cellphone, MP3 and even CD player. Even your regular telephone now has the signals sent to you via fiber optic cable, and watching cable TV is a no no. Your world is beautiful, think about it.
One of the first things that I said in the essay was that I understand making medical things digital. These are necessities and if they can be improved, regardless of how, this is extremely important. I'm also truly impressed by the limbs which mimic feeling. This is a truly wonderful step and I'm sure has a profound affect on amputees who use them. The same holds true for surgery. It's far better for a surgeon to see what he/she is doing as clearly as possible than to not have this ability. The advances in architecture are also helpful and so is the technology which allowed the miners to be found and saved. As for acoustics, these were created, quite successfully, in ancient times in amphitheatres. But my gripe wasn't related to seriously needed improvements like these. It was about everyday appliances and other things being turned digital when the analogue versions worked just fine. My coffee maker goes on the stove and makes excellent coffee. But I realise that, to some, this could be a hazzard. Yet I've seen perfectly acceptible electric coffee machines where all you do is flip a switch and it's made. Why do I need to buy a machine with tons of options that I'll never use, when all I want to do is make a cup (or more) of coffee? Now I don't know how the Keurig machines work but they're also very good. The same holds true for my stove with regular dials as opposed to a flat-top electric model with a touchpad. As long as these remain options and the plain ones are still made, they don't bother me. But if the regular ones disappear one day, I feel that will cause a problem for those of us who truly want them.
Again, I never said that I don't like or use the internet. But I am confused when you say that blind people had to wait for the news. Sure, for those like me, who are only interested in news from another country, it was difficult. But if you wanted to know about local and national news, radios and televisions existed and, as now, they provided the news every morning and night. Of course, you're right about music, but tapes are still useful and portable if a bit more cumbersome. I never personally like described films in most cases because they say stupid things like "John is whistling" when it's obvious what he's doing, particularly if he's the only one in the room. But for some films, it certainly makes sense, and I suppose that some people prefer to watch everything in that way. I usually convert cds to mp3s and yes, those are digital as is my computer. But my microwave? How is that digital? I might start watching cable, now that I have it, but I also have a ton of videos to keep me occupied and several more that I wish to buy. In any case, perhaps I titled this wrong. It's not that I'm so antidigital that I won't use anything with digital components. It's just that I feel that digitalisation is being overused in some cases.
That coffee machine you called out has an upgraded model with a flip switch that not only is simple, but you can click that switch to get different coffee brew strengths. That was only possible with digital design. Microwaves were created due to digital engineering. They are much safer, due to measurments. One can't be anti digital, but use digital items. You have to state one or the other or say I dislike not being able to finde products with switches. But then if you say that someone like me will show you that their are still many products what are switch operated, so then as the saying goes, when you know better you change your thoughts. Smile. You don't seem to want to change your opinion, even thought you now know what you could not find is verry available, and even better for you, due to digital design. That is why I posted, not because I think you don't understand your statement, but because you haven't changed your opinion even though the things you claim are not available for you are. I guess I wanted to know your response. Smile.
I'm very grateful that these things are still available and am actually glad to have been proven wrong. But my fear is that they won't always be, and unless you have the time and ability to look around, you might miss them because of the prevalence of the other types. Still, you were right in pointing out that, with a little research, they can be found. So for now, at least, my mind has been put at ease and you did help me rethink a few things. Yes, I use digital items, like my computer, but I keep most of my appliances and other household products as traditional as possible. I suppose it is a compromise.
All teasing aside and bad typing. I do hope that my writings have helped you understand your world better. I have the opinion that you honestly do not know all I have told you about, and have based your opinions on your the information that is available to you. However, strong statements must be backed up. I have noted on other boards you will make a statement, then even when your problem is solved, you still want to stick to your guns, and say "no it is not possible, or available, or should be changed. That is what I mean by when you know different, or have been shown differently change. I don't think many people are willing to do this. It is perfectly fine to have a home that is comfortable, and has the type of things in it you enjoy using, and that work best for you, but refusal to see that new idems, even though you use many or them, are as good, or better seems odd, and a dark place to be in. I mean dark, because you do not want to find or see different, so you suffer not having, because you feel you can not find it. I am a blind person like you, and you say I have the ability to go find these things, but you do as well. I am not any different from you, and I have given you a few tools that can work, so that you can learn some of the things I talk about. I don't expect you to be able to be a pro, but I am hopeful you will change your opinion about life due to seeing, and touching your world. I happen to think you are smart, but I feel living in that dark corner makes you seem unchanging, and I don't honestly believe that is the case, or maybe it is. If you pick at everything, such as using compressed air to clean your keyboard, finding all the reasons why it is unsafe, you end up stuck in the same place,with a keyboard that still sticks, because you can not move forward. If that is your wish, then so be it, but know that you don't have to stay stuck. Smile.
Peace Eleni.
I think digital technology is great. Sure, it may take a little while to get use to if you don't know how to use it, and accessability is a concern sometimes but there's usually a way to work around that. and it doesn't always work perfectly 100% of the time (but what does). but overall technology has greatly improved the quality of life and has made things much easier, faster and more convenient.